"Using these techniques, we think we can show that all claims about non-empirical matters are ultimately unprovable."
Sounds like the central tenet of logical empiricism or logical positivism to me. No?
I know it's frustrating if people don't get what you're talking about, but Stoicism might counsel: you can't control others—focus on what you can control… which is how Pyrrhonism is presented to the public.
Though I've had an episodic interest in Pyrrhonism for a couple of years now, I still can't say that answer readily the following question. I can answer that for Zen, Stoicism and Epicureanism.
So what does Pyrrhonism offer that others schools of philosophy (including non-ancient non-Greek schools) don't already offer? What is its distinctive and unique contribution?
Pyrrhonism's distinctive contribution is a set of spiritual exercises that are effective at ending the practitioner's beliefs that cause them unnecessary stress and anxiety.
Hi Doug, I’m Andy Ferguson, author of Zen’s Chinese Heritage. I’ve done a lot of research over the last seven or eight years concerning Pyrrhonism and Buddhism. I’m not sure if you’ve identified the exact teaching that Pyrrho learned in India that corresponds to the Aristotle’s Passage. It’s called the Three samadhis/ Doors/Gates to Liberation. But your discussions of the importance of signs is spot on. Also, are you familiar with Richard H Popkins work? Pyrrho’s impact on Montaigne, Hume, and others was legion. I can share a lot of little known info about signs in the Zen tradition and in Nagarjuna’s works. It would be fun to talk with you. Cheers.
The three marks of existence were occasionally connected to the three gates to liberation in Buddhist commentaries. But the three gates parallels the Aristocles passage so perfectly that I think it must be seen as what Pyrrho learned.
I actually have some stuff drafted on the Three Doors of Liberation, based on Neale's work, that I've never published. It was part of an attempt to write another book. I didn't end up with enough material for that book, but it seemed too long and complex for an essay. I should re-think that conclusion.
Beckwith clearly isn’t familiar with the three samadhi’s teaching. It corresponds so closely to the passage that I don’t think there’s any doubt that that is the teaching that Pyrrho got in India. For many years, I explored ancient Zen temples in China. In ancient times, they had three gates in front, called the gate of emptiness, signlessness, and non-action. These were the three gates to liberation.
I am, however, familiar with Matthew Neale's comparison between the Three Samadhis and structural elements in Sextus Empiricus' "Outlines of Pyrrhonism."
According to Christopher Beckwith, the Aristocles Passage is based on the Three Marks of Existence. I also think there's an influence from the Antidotes to the Three Poisons. See my article on that subject: https://ataraxiaorbust.substack.com/p/the-buddhist-three-poisons-in-pyrrhonism . I'm unfamiliar with arguments that there is some other source from Buddhism.
Neale’s work is great, especially in connecting Sextus to Nagarjuna. But I don’t think other writers have the deep background I have on key figures in Madhyamaka and Zen concerning the Three Gates, especially Zen’s emphasis on signlessness.
What's a good (reasonably priced) book on Pyrrhonism? I saw a very cheap one on Amazon that's kindle edition was $4 but I suspect it was AI, so didn't trust it.
I take it the book you saw was https://amzn.to/42QncGe . It looks to be by someone who churns out introductory philosophy books. What I could see in the sample was rather bland stuff that could have been AI-generated.
the fact that I couldn't google the guy made me think it was AI and that there are similar books by similar non-people made me question. But yes, adding this to my wish list. I'm leaning into skepticism currently, but given my understanding of Buddhism/Greek classical philosophy, I have a feeling this will speak to me.
"Using these techniques, we think we can show that all claims about non-empirical matters are ultimately unprovable."
Sounds like the central tenet of logical empiricism or logical positivism to me. No?
I know it's frustrating if people don't get what you're talking about, but Stoicism might counsel: you can't control others—focus on what you can control… which is how Pyrrhonism is presented to the public.
Though I've had an episodic interest in Pyrrhonism for a couple of years now, I still can't say that answer readily the following question. I can answer that for Zen, Stoicism and Epicureanism.
So what does Pyrrhonism offer that others schools of philosophy (including non-ancient non-Greek schools) don't already offer? What is its distinctive and unique contribution?
Pyrrhonism's distinctive contribution is a set of spiritual exercises that are effective at ending the practitioner's beliefs that cause them unnecessary stress and anxiety.
Hi Doug, I’m Andy Ferguson, author of Zen’s Chinese Heritage. I’ve done a lot of research over the last seven or eight years concerning Pyrrhonism and Buddhism. I’m not sure if you’ve identified the exact teaching that Pyrrho learned in India that corresponds to the Aristotle’s Passage. It’s called the Three samadhis/ Doors/Gates to Liberation. But your discussions of the importance of signs is spot on. Also, are you familiar with Richard H Popkins work? Pyrrho’s impact on Montaigne, Hume, and others was legion. I can share a lot of little known info about signs in the Zen tradition and in Nagarjuna’s works. It would be fun to talk with you. Cheers.
The three marks of existence were occasionally connected to the three gates to liberation in Buddhist commentaries. But the three gates parallels the Aristocles passage so perfectly that I think it must be seen as what Pyrrho learned.
The earliest Buddhist teaching on this was called the three samadhis. They became known later as the three doors to liberation.
I actually have some stuff drafted on the Three Doors of Liberation, based on Neale's work, that I've never published. It was part of an attempt to write another book. I didn't end up with enough material for that book, but it seemed too long and complex for an essay. I should re-think that conclusion.
Beckwith clearly isn’t familiar with the three samadhi’s teaching. It corresponds so closely to the passage that I don’t think there’s any doubt that that is the teaching that Pyrrho got in India. For many years, I explored ancient Zen temples in China. In ancient times, they had three gates in front, called the gate of emptiness, signlessness, and non-action. These were the three gates to liberation.
I am, however, familiar with Matthew Neale's comparison between the Three Samadhis and structural elements in Sextus Empiricus' "Outlines of Pyrrhonism."
Beckwith's argument is philological. The chapter of his book that contains his analysis is available free online from his publisher https://assets.press.princeton.edu/chapters/s10500.pdf
According to Christopher Beckwith, the Aristocles Passage is based on the Three Marks of Existence. I also think there's an influence from the Antidotes to the Three Poisons. See my article on that subject: https://ataraxiaorbust.substack.com/p/the-buddhist-three-poisons-in-pyrrhonism . I'm unfamiliar with arguments that there is some other source from Buddhism.
Yes, I'm familiar with Popkins.
I'd be delighted to talk!
I’m going out tonight but will be back in touch.
Neale’s work is great, especially in connecting Sextus to Nagarjuna. But I don’t think other writers have the deep background I have on key figures in Madhyamaka and Zen concerning the Three Gates, especially Zen’s emphasis on signlessness.
The teaching was called the 三解脱門 in Chinese.
Or gates.
Auto correct!! Aristocles!
What's a good (reasonably priced) book on Pyrrhonism? I saw a very cheap one on Amazon that's kindle edition was $4 but I suspect it was AI, so didn't trust it.
My book, "Pyrrho's Way."
I take it the book you saw was https://amzn.to/42QncGe . It looks to be by someone who churns out introductory philosophy books. What I could see in the sample was rather bland stuff that could have been AI-generated.
the fact that I couldn't google the guy made me think it was AI and that there are similar books by similar non-people made me question. But yes, adding this to my wish list. I'm leaning into skepticism currently, but given my understanding of Buddhism/Greek classical philosophy, I have a feeling this will speak to me.
Mr. Bates' book is excellent, in my opinion.